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Oil in a Type 1
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sandals



Joined: 27 Oct 2008
Posts: 401
Location: Sandpoint, I Don't Know

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those cool tins should be thrown in the trash, or mounted to the type 3 engine they were designed for. Unfortunately, to replace them means removing the heads.

There are many factors that can lead to overheating besides engine seals and quality tin. Tuning is the biggest thing. Lean condition, timing too far advanced, etc.

A quick test to see if things are too hot is to touch the dipstick after a long hard run. If it is too hot to touch without burning you r finger, then you have an issue. If it is just hot enough that you can't hold it for along time, but you cold pass it back and forth between hands without getting burned, then you're probably OK. Spitting on the block is a quick test, too. If it boils off right away, you are running too hot. If it sizzles for awhile, you are on the verge.

I can't imagine it is that tough to find a standard oil pressure switch for a VW. I would bet at least one Spokane NAPA has one in stock.
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jestes



Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 20
Location: South Hill

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have checked the timing again. At idle it's around 5 degrees BTDC. Fully advanced it's close to 28 degrees. So it does not appear to be the timing or distributor. I could afford to advance it 1 or 2 degrees but it's not back enough to cause the engine to run hot.

Next I'm going to check the carb to make sure it's not running too lean and check for intake leaks.

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Jason Estes
Oval Bug - 56/69
http://57bugbuild.blogspot.com/
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Ratbug



Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Posts: 11
Location: East of Cheney.

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes the BMW "R" engine is a dry clutch...should have stated that as I was trying to say that it (being a dry clutch engine) runs great/has been running great on wet-clutch oil. !!

The VW and BMW engines are very similar, in fact with an adapter plate you can bolt a type 1 up to a BMW transmission...you have to do some mods on the frame to make it work/fit, but the point being that the two engines are very much alike, so I'm thinking that if the Beemer likes wet clutch oil the VW should also, especially considering that the BMW engine operates and redlines at much higher RPM than the type 1. ??

k.

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1973 Super, 1971 fenders, and a 1776.
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jestes



Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 20
Location: South Hill

PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last night I went out and advanced the timing a few degrees and adjusted the carb again following these directions:
http://www.chircoestore.com/catalog/smf/index.php?topic=2112.0

I took it down the hill to Home Depot tonight and spit on the block when I got back. No sizzle at all. I took the dipstick out and could hold it in my hand with no problem. It had that hot smell when I got home, but it seemed to be coming only from the muffler (Bug Pack Hide-out). Seems like the paint would be good and baked in after 400 miles though.

_________________
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Jason Estes
Oval Bug - 56/69
http://57bugbuild.blogspot.com/
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DDMorgan



Joined: 04 May 2012
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 7:06 pm    Post subject: oil recommendations Reply with quote

OK So I sent my car in for an oil change and he over filled it. So now I am going to do a new oil change. I went to Napa where I am at but they do not carry the Valvoline VR1 in 10/40. They have 10/30 and 20/50. Do you think mixing them is OK. My motor is old and runs hot. AND while I am doing this..I want to clean my oil bath. Do I just use the same oil and approx how much should it use?
Thanks I am new to doing my own maintenance since evidently, it is hard to find mechanics that know these old motors. I don't want to drive it into Spokane (20 mi) when it has too much oil so will deal with it myself at home. Any tricks of the trade I may need to know too. I already have the gasket kit for the oil change. Do I need to put a sealant on the gasket and if so, what kind / how much should I use?
Thanks for the advise and wisdom!
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sandals



Joined: 27 Oct 2008
Posts: 401
Location: Sandpoint, I Don't Know

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How do you know it's overfilled? You could drain it into a CLEAN oil pan, then re-use the correct amount and save rest for later. What grade and brand oil did the oil change place use? 20W50 may be OK for an old engine, but 10/40 should work, too. A stock VW engine takes about 2.5 quarts. Extra oil coolers and filters add to that capacity.

No need for sealant on the gaskets. You are talking about the gaskets for the oil sump plate, right. It's the 5" round thing on the bottom with six 10mm bolts around the circumference and one large bolt it the center.

Have you pulled one of these before? If not, pull the main pug first. Let the oil drain until it is just dripping, then loosen the small nuts and slowly remove them completely, taking care not to drop the nuts or the sump plate into the oil pan. I use blue gloves for this operation, and I always have a rag or two handy. It can be messy.

Take that sump plate off and clean it really well with some brake clean or carb cleaner, or a parts washer tank if you have access to one. Gently remove the sump screen above it, taking care not to bend it too much. Often the old gaskets stick to either the sump plate, the screen, or the bottom of the engine case. Scrape them clean with a razor blade or gasket scraper. Try not to gouge the case, as it is very soft and gouges will cause leaks. Get all of the gasket material off of there, as any chunks left will cause leaks.

Reinstall the parts in the reverse order, with no sealant. I used to smear some grease on the paper gaskets just to keep them in place during the install, but it's not really necessary. Tighten the six small nuts gently, and in a criss-cross pattern. Do not over-tighten them, just a snug and a little more will do. Not sure what the actual torque range is for these, but it isn't much, probably 10-12 ft/lbs.

I usually don't recommend this book for VW mechanical repairs, but the John Muir "idiot manual" has an excellent procedure for oil change, valve adjust and tune up for beetles. The book contains many technical errors and fallacies, but for the above purposes, it is like having a knowledgeable older brother standing behind you telling you which wrench to grab and what way to turn it. It's a great place to start.
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DDMorgan



Joined: 04 May 2012
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 9:20 pm    Post subject: too much oil? Reply with quote

On the stick it is 3/16th inch above the top line. I read it should be below the top line or between the two. So I assume there is too much oil in it which from what I read, can cause damage to the seals. Someone I just talked to suggested using a turkey baster to take out the excess. Do you think it is necessary to lower the level?
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sandals



Joined: 27 Oct 2008
Posts: 401
Location: Sandpoint, I Don't Know

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, that's too full, and yes, you need to correct it. The turkey baster would work if you could get it into the bottom of the crankcase, but I doubt you can. There is (or should be) a baffle at the bottom of the oil fill tube that will stop any access through there.

I would drop the oil into a clean pan, use a funnel to get it into some clean empty oil jugs, and put the proper amount back into the engine.
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DDMorgan



Joined: 04 May 2012
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 10:11 pm    Post subject: Great forum thanks for the help! Reply with quote

Sandals,
Thanks. Guess I will be exploring new territory. If I am going to be running this VW then I should learn how to do routine maintenance.
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motofly196



Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 438
Location: Medical Lake

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great write up Corey. If your quick, you can pull the drain plug, let a little drain, plug it with your thumb....then have someone check the dipstick again. It's messy, but it can be done. When the level is close (or a little lower than the top mark, put the drain plug (big one in the center) back in.

Scott
(The 1776 has ZDDP in it now...runs the same Laughing , but I like the piece of mind)
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Ratbug



Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Posts: 11
Location: East of Cheney.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can mix different weight oils. I live near Cheney, what does your bug look like? I think I've seen a couple of "strangers" lately. Mine is the semi-flat-black one with red wheels, often parked across the street from the the High School.

k.

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1973 Super, 1971 fenders, and a 1776.
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jestes



Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 20
Location: South Hill

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ratbug wrote:
You can mix different weight oils. I live near Cheney, what does your bug look like? I think I've seen a couple of "strangers" lately. Mine is the semi-flat-black one with red wheels, often parked across the street from the the High School.

k.

I've only taken mine into Cheney once. I used to teach at EWU and I'm on the PAB for the Computer Science department. It was nice enough for out last board meeting that I was able to take it. Would have been about a month ago.


_________________
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Jason Estes
Oval Bug - 56/69
http://57bugbuild.blogspot.com/
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DDMorgan



Joined: 04 May 2012
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 7:29 pm    Post subject: 69 chrome blue karmann ghia Reply with quote

I live in Cheney near campus but my car is parked in the back of my house. It is waiting for a restoration. I finally got it out a few weeks ago after about 8 years and it cranked right up. ( Did have to prime the carb). Once the kids could no longer fit in the back, it became parked. It needs a new pan behind both seats so I do not drive it currently. AND of course, some body work, interior, paint, etc. I have about 6-7 years of driving on a rebuilt 1600 so hopefully, once it is beautified, it will be driveable. I have owned it since 72. It certainly isn't as pretty as that wonderful red bug!
[img]http://s1175.photobucket.com/albums/r621/DebraMorgan1/[/img]
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jestes



Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 20
Location: South Hill

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:12 pm    Post subject: Re: 69 chrome blue karmann ghia Reply with quote

DDMorgan wrote:
I live in Cheney near campus but my car is parked in the back of my house. It is waiting for a restoration. I finally got it out a few weeks ago after about 8 years and it cranked right up. ( Did have to prime the carb). Once the kids could no longer fit in the back, it became parked. It needs a new pan behind both seats so I do not drive it currently. AND of course, some body work, interior, paint, etc. I have about 6-7 years of driving on a rebuilt 1600 so hopefully, once it is beautified, it will be driveable. I have owned it since 72. It certainly isn't as pretty as that wonderful red bug!
[img]http://s1175.photobucket.com/albums/r621/DebraMorgan1/[/img]

Looks like it's in pretty good shape. Seems like most Ghias have been smashed front or back and are in need of or have had some pretty serious repairs. Mine did not start out life looking all that great.


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Jason Estes
Oval Bug - 56/69
http://57bugbuild.blogspot.com/
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