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Oil in a Type 1
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jestes



Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 20
Location: South Hill

PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 8:07 pm    Post subject: Oil in a Type 1 Reply with quote

What type of oil do you guys typically run in your air cooled VWs on this side of the state? We used to run SAE 30 on the west side but it didn't get that warm over there. When my car gets too warm the oil light starts to come on at idle.
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Jason Estes
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sandals



Joined: 27 Oct 2008
Posts: 401
Location: Sandpoint, I Don't Know

PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

10W40 in the summer if my engine is nice and tight. I might jump to 20W50 if I have oil pressure issues at high temps on an older engine. Make sure that you use either a racing grade oil with ZDDP or a ZDDP additive. Most modern oils no longer contain enough Zinc to protect engines with solid lifters, such as our air cooled VW's.

I use Rislone additive. So far, so good.
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Ratbug



Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Posts: 11
Location: East of Cheney.

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use motorcycle oil, (synthetic) and there's quite a variety at the motorcycle shops. A little more expensive, but I've got a few $$$ in my engine (worth more than the bug it's in) so it's worth it to me. I'm old-school on oil, and 20W50 is the thinnest oil I would run in an air cooled engine. The trends towards thin/thinner oils is more in the interest of getting better gas mileage, (for the manufacturers/car companies) and not so much in the best interest of the engine...and that is just my opinion. Also keep in mind that an air cooled engine is not as "tight" as a water cooled unit. Anyhow, the motorcycle oils still have the good stuff in them.

If I were to run an automotive oil, I'd stick with a straight 30W. But, if you are using synthetic, it does have superior shear strength and you can get away with a lighter grade or multi-grade oil.

ken.

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motofly196



Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 436
Location: Medical Lake

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ken,

Do motorcycle oils still have ZDDP in them? I never even thought about that! I'm sitting on half a case of Yamalube that I use in my 4-stroke motocross bike. It might start going into the bus engine. But you're right, it's expensive. I just spend $8 or $9 on a little bottle of ZDDP for my bus engine from Eastwood. This is an interesting thread...I'd like to hear what others are running for oil. I believe you are both on to something here!

Scott
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sandals



Joined: 27 Oct 2008
Posts: 401
Location: Sandpoint, I Don't Know

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most motorcycle oils still use ZDDP. Specifically those meant for H-D V-twins, as they are pushrod/solid lifter engines like a VW.

20W50 is OK for racing applications (race engines are typically built "loose"), and in high summer heat. Most of the time it is pretty thick for around here for a daily driver. A well built VW engine should certainly be built with tolerances that work well with 10W30 and 10W40.

Scott, not sure if that Yamalube is suitable or not. It will likely be just fine. The only issue I can think of is that it has additives for the wet clutch system. I don't know how that may affect an air cooled VW engine.
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motofly196



Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 436
Location: Medical Lake

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Corey...I never even thought about Hardley Davidson oil. I bet if it's got that silly logo on it, it's expensive! I'll be mail-ordering that stuff, cause the day I walk into a HD store, is also the day I wanna die!!

Scott
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Ratbug



Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Posts: 11
Location: East of Cheney.

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, Harley does not make the oil of course, so you are safe. Just spray paint the bottles when you get them home.

I have been running Honda's premium oil in my BMW motorcycle, "Honda Gold" or something like that, and it has worked very well in it. As you know, a BMW R engine is kind of a type 1 with a couple of cylinders removed, and with Hemi-heads added. I don't think there has been any ill effects from it being wet-clutch compatible. I don't know what there is, or isn't, in motorcycle oil to make it compatible with wet clutches. But the Beemer likes it, and talk about a nice engine...that's one nice engine. And if you think about it, a wet-clutch 4-stroke engine is still a 4-stroke engine, so there must not be anything in wet-clutch oil that is not compatible with the engine. Did that make sense?

Last oil change my son gave me some Amsoil synthetic motorcycle oil, (which he didn't like in his....Harley) which I used in the Ratbug. The Amsoil was 10/40, but I am still breaking the 1776 in. My initial break-in was with 10w40 Dino auto-oil, which I only ran it on on the stand. It certainly is running nice on the Amsoil, but next change I'll go to the Honda oil in 20W50.

I think the motorcycle oils are worth the extra cost if you have a nice engine, or a fresh engine that you want to maximize it's life, not sure I'd run it in any old, well used stock 1600. In that case, again, some Castrol 30wt and maybe a tiny dab of STP would be fine.

??

k.

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sandals



Joined: 27 Oct 2008
Posts: 401
Location: Sandpoint, I Don't Know

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scott, I won't tell anyone if you buy Harley oil, but you can buy the same type of oil at NAPA ,without the HD overhead, or overpriced sticker.

Aren't BMW opposed twins dry clutch? I have always wanted an old air head Beemer. Maybe a 1970 R75 with some krauser bags. They do run nice. I was just curious if there were any additives in a wet-clutch specific moto oil that would negatively affect anything on an A/C VW engine. Probably not, but a worthwhile question to ask, I suppose.

There are many oils available with ZDDP still in them. Most are specialty oils with names like Brad Penn and Royal Purple. Any moto specific oil will be in this same grade as far as zinc levels. They are all pretty expensive. That's why I use the Rislone additive. I use about one third of a bottle with each 2 1/2 quart oil change. If I had an external filter and/or oil cooler, I would use more additive. This is used with standard automotive oil.

I will soon be assembling a new 1776. I will use Brad Penn break in oil, then switch to regular auto oil with ZDDP additive for the engine's useful life.

Wanna blow your mind with engine oil debates and info? Read this...

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=220755

The ZDDP issue is relatively new, so you can skip to the last 30 pages or so for that topic.
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motofly196



Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 436
Location: Medical Lake

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Corey....you're putting a 1776 together? that wouldn't be for the 57' would it? Laughing
A drag racer co-worker first told me about the ZDDP being taken out of automobile oil. Good to know that I can still get it at NAPA, cause all but one of my vehicles needs ZDDP! I've heard of people wiping out a cam right away....and others having no problems at all. So, that leads me to think that maybe there was something else going on internally that caused (or helped cause) the failure. I'm getting ready for another oil change on my new 1776, and I already have this bottle of ZDDP, so I'll use that. But I'm liking the idea of 10w40 better than the straight 30 that I've been running.
I've read enought debate issues on Samba...and my take is if they have enough time to squabble for 100's of pages, then they aren't getting anything done in the garage!!!

Scott
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sandals



Joined: 27 Oct 2008
Posts: 401
Location: Sandpoint, I Don't Know

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 1776 is intended for the 70 camper, but it may get it's break-in in the 57. Now I just need to get off the confuzer and get some stuff done in the shop. Wink

Last edited by sandals on Mon May 21, 2012 8:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Doodoob



Joined: 06 Jul 2011
Posts: 98
Location: Spokane, WA

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I run 20W50 in my 1914.
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Troy Hobbs



Joined: 05 Aug 2003
Posts: 726

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 6:55 am    Post subject: Oil in a Type 1 Reply with quote

Valvoline has VR 1 Racing oil in several weights, it is a dino oil with enough ZDDP and you can get it at NAPA. Lucas also has a ZDDP additive you can add to any oil to raise the level to the ideal 1200-1500 ppm. Beware of running too heavy of oil, especially in a fresh tight engine, it will bypass the oil cooler and make the engine run hot. Over 45 psi is when this happens.
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jestes



Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 20
Location: South Hill

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the feedback. I just put Valvoline Max Life 20/50 with half a bottle of Risolne. Itís a 1650cc with 40K miles on it so I'm not too worried about high pressure. When I get off the freeway I still notice a very faint flickering on the oil light but itís not like it was with SAE30. It has not been too warm since I did the oil change so Iíll see how it goes when things start to heat up again.
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sandals



Joined: 27 Oct 2008
Posts: 401
Location: Sandpoint, I Don't Know

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

40K on an engine with 20W50 oil and ambient temps below 70 should not have a flickering oil light. Either you have an oil pressure issue, or you may be overheating. That light comes on at around 8 PSI.
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jestes



Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 20
Location: South Hill

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know I have the wrong pressure switch. I'm not sure what it came from, but the switch is closed when pressure is applied and the light turns on. So when I say it flickers, it's actually dimming not turning on at idle. Iíve stopped at a couple of the local parts stores and none of them seem to have the right switch and I hate to have them special order a $6 part.

It could be running hot but I donít have a temp gauge to tell for sure. Anyone know any good tricks to check? All engine compartment seals are new and air tight, all tin is installed and fits well, it has supper cool tins on the bottom of the cylinders. My biggest concern is the 36HP shroud. Itís a factory shroud that I put a doghouse back on. While everything is welded up tight, there are only a few veins inside to direct the air. Iím considering putting the 1600 shroud back on, but I donít want to go through the trouble if I donít know that is the problem.

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Oval Bug - 56/69
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